Campaign Against Torture
By: BJ Lawson
Physicians for Human Rights has launched a campaign Broken Laws, Broken Lives to document medical evidence of torture, and raise awareness of torture experienced by detainees in American custody. The Preface to their report is written by Major General Antonio Taguba (USA, Ret), who led the US Army’s official investigation into the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal and testified before Congress on his findings in May, 2004. From his Preface:
This report tells the largely untold human story of what happened to detainees in our custody when the Commander-in-Chief and those under him authorized a systematic regime of torture. This story is not only written in words: It is scrawled for the rest of these individuals’ lives on their bodies and minds. Our national honor is stained by the indignity and inhumane treatment these men received from their captors.
The profiles of these eleven former detainees, none of whom were ever charged with a crime or told why they were detained, are tragic and brutal rebuttals to those who claim that torture is ever justified. Through the experiences of these men in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay, we can see the full scope of the damage this illegal and unsound policy has inflicted—both on America’s institutions and our nation’s founding values, which the military, intelligence services, and our justice system are duty-bound to defend.
The full report is deeply troubling, and recommended reading. How can we, as Americans, reach a point of desperation such that we accept, rationalize, and even encourage subhuman behavior? Is there any evidence that information obtained through torture is accurate, or valuable? How is American security enhanced by our abandoning respect for basic human rights?
How have Americans handled the need for intelligence gathering in the past? Is there precedent for interrogations conducted by men and women who respect human rights, and understand the importance of setting a principled example both globally and individually?
Fortunately, yes. As a contrast to horrendous torture tactics that we must reject, an article last October provided an opportunity for the veterans of P.O. Box 1142, a top-secret World War II installation, to speak out about their experiences interrogating Nazi prisoners:
For six decades, they held their silence.
The group of World War II veterans kept a military code and the decorum of their generation, telling virtually no one of their top-secret work interrogating Nazi prisoners of war at Fort Hunt.
When about two dozen veterans got together yesterday for the first time since the 1940s, many of the proud men lamented the chasm between the way they conducted interrogations during the war and the harsh measures used today in questioning terrorism suspects.
Back then, they and their commanders wrestled with the morality of bugging prisoners’ cells with listening devices. They felt bad about censoring letters. They took prisoners out for steak dinners to soften them up. They played games with them.
“We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture,” said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler’s deputy, Rudolf Hess.
The interrogators had standards that remain a source of pride and honor.
“During the many interrogations, I never laid hands on anyone,” said George Frenkel, 87, of Kensington. “We extracted information in a battle of the wits. I’m proud to say I never compromised my humanity.”
Interesting concept — a battle of wits. Interesting ideals — never compromising one’s humanity.
I believe we need more physicians in Congress. Politicians and bureaucrats are far too eager to engage in linguistic gymnastics to “define” torture. For physicians who honor their Hippocratic oath, definitions are unnecessary. Physicians seek to cure illness, and ease suffering. While there is no question that self-defense is a fundamental human right, imposing suffering on those in custody is un-American, and inhuman.
Tags: human rights
August 15th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Flip the coin and ask how the other side behaves. Ask Nicholas Berg about whether or not he thinks his captors “compromised their humanity”. We will not achieve our ends in this conflict by imposing some self bloated sense of humanity upon our actions in a misguided attempt to assuage our conscience by levelling the moral playing field. When our actions are so humanly despicable that it causes some Taliban or Al Qaida or whatever flavor of terrorist you want to use to pause and tell himself that it just isn’t worth it then ANY action is justified to achieve that end. You are fooling yourselves when you wrap up in a blanket of idealistic ignorance and a sense of fair play because our enemy, radical Islam and its followers are most certainly not playing by the same rules. And if you walk away thinking that you are better because your humanity wasn’t compromised then you shouldn’t have been in the fight in the first place. And before you ask - I am a special warfare combat veteran of 7 tours - 4 in Afghanistan and 3 in Iraq - and have seen first hand what “compromised humanity” looks like. Abu Ghraib and Gitmo don’t even come close my friends………
August 15th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Marcus - first of all, thank you for your service and your sacrifice.
Another concern with torture is that it plays into the hands of our enemies. I’m not aware of any evidence suggesting terrorists view our potential to torture as a deterrent. For true extremists and adherents to “radical Islam”, torture and suffering are badges of martyrdom believed to increase the reward in the afterlife. That’s exactly why they signed up.
One may attempt to justify torture based upon an “eye for an eye” rationale. But beyond leaving the whole world blind, does it do any good? What “end” does it achieve?
August 16th, 2008 at 12:08 am
BJ - You are welcome - and I do admire and support your efforts. You have my vote…
That said, I think you are dangerously glib and cliche with your ‘eye for en eye’ assessment. First off, thankfully the whole world isn’t doing what radical Islam and its followers are doing. There may be disagreement and outright conflict (Georgia v. Russia) but for the most part relations are civil and follow a semblance of decency.
Radical Islam DOES NOT, WILL NOT, and as is being taught in wahabbist and sharia schools IN THIS COUNTRY never will observe this set of rules. They know this and hold and use our sense of morality against us because they are willing and have done the unthinkable. When we start practicing the same kind of unthinkable inhumanities against them we may end up with a large group of blind or one-eyed folks but if most of the blind (or dead) are wahabbist or sharia followers I’m okay with that. You never win a war by being better than your enemy - you win by being so much worse than your enemy that he never again comes out to fight.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
August 16th, 2008 at 8:53 am
BJ,
Thank you for speaking out on this issue. Torture has been known to be an ineffective and barbaric means of extracting information since the 1700s. Given the moral implications and questionable effectiveness of the practice, I am shocked and appalled that our nation engages in so called “harsh interrogation methods”.
Many young American’s lack a sense of perspective in this issue. Under previous Republican presidents such as Ronald Reagan and Bush Senior the use of torture was never a matter of active formal policy. I am deeply concerned that youth today who lack this sense of perspective will come to believe that the use of torture - e.g “harsh interrogation methods” is a normal part of policy, rather than the historical aberration that it is.
Thank you for taking a principled stand against this immoral and unamerican practice. I am proud and heartened that there is at least one principled candidate in North Carolina.
Best,
James Hendrickson
August 16th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Marcus,
It does not follow that because one’s enemy employs a particular tactic, that we must do the same or be at a disadvantage. Information obtained under torture is notoriously unreliable, for one thing.
-jcr
August 16th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
John,
Thanks for polite debate - not sure how my email addy leaked of this site but the inbox was full of nasty stuff this morning.
Grant me this - I have a very personal and different perspective on how these people function. They do not hesitate to use these inhumane practices on each other - much less one of my fellow servicemembers, that much we have seen. Trust me though, no one hates and despises war with every fibre of their being than a combat served serviceman or woman. The average American takes for granted and yet has no idea how horrible it can get. I humbly submit that if you were to have witnessed some of the things I have you would, no matter how principled you think you are, likely revisit or soften your stance on how humanely we should be fighting the war on terror.
As far as information extraction - it’s not done in a vacuum. No single piece of info from an interrogation is actionable but as it fits into the larger picture, there is plenty of material obtained that ultimately saves the lives of American service members and as far as I’m concerned, that makes it worth it.
Again, thank you for polite disagreement - it is and was my pleasure serving for people like you. Be Well.
August 17th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Nasty stuff??? How is that possible? Are you sure it’s related to this website?
August 17th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Marcus,
It’s not that I believe that someone like Khalid Mohammed should be put up in a suite at the Waldorf and fed caviar to get information out of him, it’s that I look to the broader effects of torture.
When the USA employs torture, it diminishes our influence on other countries, not to mention the boost it gives to the terrorists’ recruitment efforts. I would also point out that torture has proven to be a major mistake on Al Queda’s part, as it seems to be the thing that turned most Iraqis against them.
-jcr
August 17th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Come to think of it, I remember reading about the treatment that US forces gave to Japanese POWs in world war two being a major tactical advantage.
The Japanese had been told by their commanders that if they were captured, they’d be killed in the most painful manner imaginable, and when the few prisoners who were captured instead of committing suicide discovered that they were in fact properly fed, given medical attention and so forth, they often became quite cooperative.
-jcr
August 18th, 2008 at 8:37 am
Jeremy,
Occam’s Razor. I make a contrarian post on a controversial topic on a site I am required to provide an email addy. The following morning I have 14 emails specifically addressing my stance and my post - and none of them polite debate like JCR.
How is that possible? You tell me.
Am I sure it’s related to this website? Electronic spillage happens all the time - I doubt it was intentional in this case. No matter - if the folks responding lack the courage to engage in polite and public debate, they go straight to the recycling bin.
It speaks volumes about BJ Lawson that he is drawing support across the spectrum. I am certain that I am among the minority regarding this specific blog topic, but concerning support for BJ, I am in with a lot of other folks. Maybe they are the ones who can’t get their heads wrapped around the fact that as diverse as we are on a specific topic, we are just the same concerning the bigger picture. Not my concern.
August 18th, 2008 at 10:18 am
BJ, Web Administrator, et al - This is the true owner of the IP address that the “Marcus” posts came from.
Mystery solved. Your site is intact, the problem was at my end. I’m not sure who “Marcus” really is, but I do know his IP address is within a 1/4 mile of my house. I had installed a new router and inadvertently left the secure firewall down. Somehow, he/she was able to zoof the wireless signal and mirror his/her postings from my IP address using an old AOL email account name that he had hijacked (yes I have some other security issues to clean up, but I am 99% certain who the culprit is). My first indication was 91 emails in about an hour from various and sundry spammers on the real email account and the “nasty emails” that I had no clue about as to cause or origin.
Long story short - all of the so called “nasty emails” in the real email account originated from the same IP address (his) and were not caused by a security vulnerability on this site.
At least he was a polite kid in his posts. If only he/she would channel such energy into productive and worthwhile causes.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:06 am
On the subject of polite debate, my position is that this site is BJ’s house, and when in Rome…
I’ll certainly pull out the daggers when the situation warrants it, and I’ve certainly traded my share of digs with many people in other forums. My policy is basically tit-for-tat. If whoever I’m debating keeps it civil, then I do to.
-jcr
August 19th, 2008 at 11:06 am
My name is Victor and I am a former cavalry scout of 5 years in the army and a 15 month veteran of Iraq (03-04). It makes me feel ashamed that our nation is full of angry people who want to stoop as low as the criminals in other nations. As Americans, we have the ability to have a happy, peaceful nation, but we are letting it all get thrown to the wind by hateful radicals who want power and control, and to see pain inflicted on people of other nations. I hope that in my lifetime I can once again see a nation that is happy and not obsessed with the terror they have allowed to be created in their own imagination and by the political leviathans who seek to control us through fear and division. United we stand, Divided we fall. And the ones who divide us are those who allow the use our military to invade other nations. Our national obsession with terror will do nothing but attract terror into our lives.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:50 am
Well said, Victor.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Victor - Your honorable service notwithstanding, please explain to me how the hell I “imagined” the terror of 9/11 watching the towers fall. Your ignorance and idealism are astounding……
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Hey Guys,
Some very interesting comments going back and forth here and in most part all done in a very cordial manner. I think BJ’s post on torture is very well written and gets to the point of why torture doesnt work.
Torture doesnt work for a few of reasons. (1) People being tortured will say anything to get respite from it. (2) People who are willing to kill themselves for their beliefs historically dont react to it (3) Countries who have used it as a method to gain intelligence have found that it is useless.
To point number one i will say the British govt (I am from Scotland) extensively used torture as a means to extract confessions from Irish people in the 70s which lead to the arrest of the Guildford 4, Birmingham 6 and the McGuire 7. All of these folks were arrested and spent decades in jail under confessions they obtained in jail. The real bombers, once caught and under no duress admitted responsibility for the bombings done by these innocent folks but this was ignored by the authorities. If you quashed their sentences then you have to admit how you got them in the first place.
2) People who are willing to kill themselves for their cause will put themselves through terrible pain and often will not breakdown under torture. Torture was used in the Castlereagh detention center in Ireland for 30 years and they found that torture was totally ineffective. Again if 10 Irishmen were willing to start themselves to death for 2 months watching their body breakdown completely for the sake of not wearing convicts uniforms then its doubtful that any methods used will illicit information from them.
3) Israel, the state which has most often used torture against Muslims gave it up because in their own reports they found it absolutely ineffectual in gathering information and that other methods such as bribery, using religious leaders or making threats against the property owned by the persons family were more effectual in getting folks to talk.
In regards to the posts by Marcus and his view on torture all i would say is that i do not, nor would i expect America, to use Al Qaeda as a moral compass on how we should behave in the middle east. Torture is very good for two things. Causing pain to people. Giving them a reason, or their children a reason to continue to hate us. If we use the tactics of people who dont value human life, then we become them.